Former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper isn’t buying what President Donald Trump is selling.
Hickenlooper, who announced his formal bid for the White House early Monday, said in an interview with The Denver Post that he believes the nation’s economy should be performing much better and that Trump, who won in part due to his support from rural America, isn’t doing any favors for soybean farmers in Iowa or Kansas.
“I think an awful lot of what Trump has been delivering has been catering to a set of fairly narrow self-interest and not addressing the broader issue,” Hickenlooper said.
Other topics he discussed with The Denver Post include North Korea, cybersecurity and how to re-establish faith in America’s elections. This interview has been edited for clarity.
How does it feel to say the words, “I’m running for president?”
It’s kind of funny, but it’s exhilarating. I mean, I spent enough time thinking about it that I thought it would feel awkward or strange but it feels natural.
One way voters decide who to vote for is asking themselves the question, “Are we better off today than we were four years ago?” So why is America not better off today than we were in 2016, when Trump was elected?
Well, I think if you look at many of the basic measures of how to judge a leader, he’s not performing very well. A huge number of Americans don’t feel they’re better off now than they were then. I mean — we’re talking like over 60 percent don’t think the country is going in the right direction. President Trump has alienated our closest allies. He ignores the advice of his top advisers, top experts. He gave a gigantic tax break to corporate America. It doesn’t seem to have helped. You know, it’s a benefit to a relatively small number of people and it’s an expense that will be spread out over a large number of people — many of them are children and grandchildren by the time you get to pay this debt off. I don’t think that’s moving the country in the right direction.
On Sunday, U.S. Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio rattled off a list of what he considers Trump’s accomplishments in office, things like lower taxes, a growing economy, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh on the U.S. Supreme Court and the relocation of a U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. How do you convince a Trump supporter who agrees with Rep. Jordan to vote for you in 2020?
So go back and look at the last four years of (President Barack) Obama and the first year of Trump. Trump has not had a superstar performance, especially when you look at the impact of the tax cuts. No president has ever given a giant tax cut when the economy was already going full tilt. And we don’t seem to see any benefit at all from that. None.
Go and talk to Trump supporters, go talk to the soybean farmers in Iowa or Kansas. An Iowa state leader was describing (the effects of tariffs and Trump’s trade war). It will take them eight years just to get back to where they started when Trump got elected. Look at the debt on the nation’s farms and ranches right now and then look at what it was when Trump began. These aren’t folks who I think are going to be wildly enthusiastic. I mean, they may care about having the embassy in Jerusalem. I don’t know. I haven’t had the discussion. But I think an awful lot of what Trump has been delivering has been catering to a set of fairly narrow self-interest and not addressing the broader issue.
Is there anything Donald Trump has done that you agree with?
I look at the stuff that is not being addressed. He’s basically rolling back protections for people who have pre-existing conditions. He’s making it harder for private insurance companies to succeed and cover more people. The inflationary spiral of health care is going completely unchecked.
Step back and look at climate change. You mentioned that he’s cut back rules and regulations. He didn’t just cut back on some of these regulations, he threw the entire set of regulations in the trash can. What we what we did in Colorado, and I’m proud to talk about it, we went through 24,500 rules and regulations, and then we went and either eliminated or dramatically simplified 11,000. But we always made sure that we’re providing maximum protection for our citizens, holding ourselves to the highest environmental and ethical standards. They’re not trying to do that. They’re putting a lobbyist for the coal industry in charge of whether we’re getting rid appropriate regulations or not.
I understand that the vast majority of Republicans support a Republican president no matter what. But you know, when you get into your second beer with most reasonable Republicans they will express serious concern. The consequences of all these impetuous — some would say reckless — decisions are making businesses less certain about when and where to invest capital. And that’s what creates economic growth.
We saw talks break down between the Trump administration and the North Korean regime. What would you do differently to ensure a nuclear-free North Korea?
The question is how do you build a framework by which you do get two legitimate outcomes, legitimate achievements in foreign policy. And I think you’ve got to get a team of experts and rely on their advice. And then put in the time and build the relationship.
When I got elected mayor in 2003, Time magazine called me one of the top five big-city mayors in America. And it wasn’t because I was a genius. It was because I was able to attract a team of really talented people. And then I directed them and organized them so that they could really get stuff done. That is exactly the opposite of President Trump.
I’m not sure in his entire professional career — outside of organizing lawsuits — when he ever really organized a team and on a large scale brought people together with common goals and found common ground and moved the ball down the field. This is not in his in his record of achievement.
Would you meet with North Korea if you were president?
The way our foreign diplomacy has historically worked is you set down certain basic parameters of what you want to talk about, what you don’t want to talk about, and what the steps are to initiate those kinds of talks. I think there were a lot of steps that were skipped in that rush to judgment, and to prove that we could make a world record.
What do you consider the nation’s greatest national security threat and how would you go about protecting the nation?
I think cybersecurity has become a major international threat, partly because relatively small groups of people can cause incredible damage from far-away places. We don’t have a set of protocols like we do for direct military intervention.
We have record unemployment in this nation and in Colorado. But wages are still low and there is an incredible wealth gap. You’re planning on making on access to jobs and training a major priority as part of your platform but how do you sure those jobs are actually going to be paying a livable wage?
We have millions of jobs open right now. I mean, really, millions of jobs open. We don’t have people with the right skills to fill those jobs. To really move people up the economic ladder and make sure that we give everybody a fair chance of achieving their version of the American dream, it’s going to take skills.
You talk about opportunity, the single best tool we have to create economic opportunity is to make sure that people have the skills that are most needed, we predict and anticipate what skills are most critical and that we make sure that everybody has an equal opportunity to learn those skills. Universal skills are incredibly important. I think it might take us years to get free college for all, but I think we get the free skills for all in the immediate future.
If you get the nomination and beat Trump, there are going to be some angry Trump supporters. We saw, at the end of the 2016 election, claims the election could have been rigged. How would you go about ensuring that everyone accepts the outcome of the election and that Trump supporters don’t feel as if they don’t have a representative in the White House?
One is we’ve got to be transparent and make sure that the election, that the voting and the counting of votes is accessible to the media. We have to dispel accusations of voter fraud. And I think we’ve got to do a better job of being transparent. I think Colorado’s model where we back up every vote that’s cast, even if it’s cast electronically, (is a good system). And then there’s this notion of mail-in ballots. They’re less expensive and get a higher turnout than any other form of voting.
The second part is I would immediately go out and try to listen as hard as I possibly can to what their greatest fears are of the new administration and say, “How about looking at where we can really make progress together?” You can never make everyone happy and I recognize that there’ll be a number of disgruntled voters no matter who wins the election.
After I got re-elected in 2014, which was one of the worst election years for a Democrat, I reached out to the rural part of the state. If you look at our rural economy in Colorado, it really has become one of the best. I think we’re going to be one the first states to have broadband in every city and town. That’s a pretty significant achievement. It was about reaching out to the rural part of the state to say, “Hey, you matter. And we will demonstrate that you’re a priority with real dollars.” And I think we would do that for the entire country.